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Yea.. i've seen him a few times.. but I've also seen another guy, who chooses not to play out who is a friend of vinnies that shreds the same stuff, all the modulations all, insane singles everywhere.. but he doesn't really push himself anymore and just stays where he's at and teaches.. a few people here have seen him, and while he's not up there at vinnie's level.. he could be i'm sure if he wantted to..
i'm not trying to put vinnie down.. but there are a LOT of insane drummers out there, and the inevitable fact is.. someone will come along who is better evenutally..
I don't think you can have a ebst drummer on the planet, vinnie is reat if you want the note amount of notes thrown into a bar with the odest twists.. but can you see vinnie playing a metal gig? Sitting in with Slayer perhaps?
I can't really.. everyone has there strengths and weaknesses there is no 'best'.
I think it's all about the positive thinking too, if everyone always thinks, I and noone will ever reach that level..then you never will.. but if you think high enough, with a positive attitude, in a postive way "someday, I will surpass that" then people will surely get to such a point..
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Beat Hit,
punk rock does not necessarily have to do with being non-conformist. I can't define punk rock. I can, however, say that I've never witnessed a band immersed in punk ideals who told me to stop taping their show.
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I have a bunch of comments on this whole Vinnie/taping issue, but I'm too tired to type them in right now. But, rest-assured, my HOD brethren, I will spout off next time I get up on my soapbox!!!!!
Suffice it to say for now that if having his gigs taped is the worst thing that ever happens to Vinnie, I'll bet that only a few thousand of the 6 billion people on this planet would not wish to trade places with him. While I respect the rights of any artist, being a crybaby about it just ain't cool!
Secondly, Shedder...thanks for posting the clip and the pix!!! I'd be interested in seeing the Virgil clip, even if the quality is not that great. The thing I dig about Virgil is that he comes up with new "showmanship" ideas every couple of months, and I can't remember them all, nor figure them out!!! So being able to see recent footage always inspires me to get back to the woodshed. (Unfortunately, I don't have enough server space to host it right now...)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 22, 2003 11:10 PM: Message edited by: mja61 ]</font>
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Thanks to; jaypfunk for this:
For all us Frank Zappa and Vinnie fans, here's a little story that Steve Vai told about him. It sort of sums up how great he WAS. It's excerted from Drum Magazine.
Vai On Colaiuta
I was just enamored with Vinnie. Back in the Frank days, his whole approach, when I heard Vinnie play, his phrasing - it satisfied something in my heart. It was easy to get certain rhythmic gratification from straight up-and-down-type players. Playing grooves, alternate grooves here and there. But Vinnie just came in and threw a wrench into the works. The guy is an alien. He was able to touch buttons with his sense of polyrhythms that no one has ever done. Frank's band was the perfect soundboard for that. I started transcribing his playing for The Frank Zappa Book. I mean, there's five to six different notations for the hi-hat! [laughs]
I'll tell you a really great Vinnie story. He's one of the most amazing sight-readers that ever existed on the instrument. One day we were in a Frank rehearsal, this was early '80s, and Frank brought in this piece of music called "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation." Just unbelievably complex. All the drums were written out, just like "The Black Page" except even more complex. There were these runs of like 17 over 3 and every drumhead is notated differently. And there were a whole bunch of people there, I think Bozzio was there.
Vinnie had this piece of music on the stand to his right. To his left he had another music stand with a plate of sushi on it, okay? Now the tempo of the piece was very slow, like "The Black Page." And then the first riff came in, [mimics bizarre Zappa-esque drum rhythm patterns] with all these choking of cymbals, and hi-hat, ruffs, spinning of rototoms and all this crazy stuff. And I saw Vinnie reading this thing.
Now, Vinnie has this habit of pushing his glasses up with the middle finger of his right hand. Well I saw him look at this one bar of music, it was the last bar of music on the page. He started to play it as he was turning the page with one hand, and then once the page was turned he continued playing the riff with his right hand, as he reached over with his left hand, grabbed a piece of sushi and put it in his mouth, continued the riff with his left hand and feet, pushed his glasses up, and then played the remaining part of the bar.
It was the sickest thing I have ever seen. Frank threw his music up in the air. Bozzio turned around and walked away. I just started laughing.
Drum! Mag Nov/Dec 2000
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Unbelievably Vinnie!! Thanks Pocket!! [img]eek.gif[/img]
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It's right for Vinnie to get pissed off at someone taking his effort and rudely copping it. I bet he would feel different if you went up to him prior to his performance and arrange something so that you'd be able to tape...maybe not and so be it.
He's unique in a lot of respects, this irascibility is par for the course...JD Salinger comes to mind.
But as for Vinnie being the best and all that...I still have yet to see a person develop a voice as Tony Williams did. Vinne's stuff is entirely derived from things Tony came up with, weird stickings and shifting rythyms.
Some recordings Vinnie's been on hit me the way most of Tony's stuff did, like, "what the hell was that and why did he just do that?"
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Beat Hit.....reread my post CAREFULLY please.You will see that i do come from a place of love and respect.I was simply stating i dont dig on millionaire musicians acting spoiled with their good fortune.Did NOT even say "my 'punk rocker' side hates the 'punk rocker' side of Vinnie".Let me clarify to you that 'punk rock' for me is all about an attitude stemming from the rejection of over-done,dated ways of thinking;like a portal to be more forward thinking about the world around you.Satchmo is punk rock.Tony is punk.Tool is punk.Amsterdam is punk.Many,many drummers with a distinct voice are punk,and yes so is Vinnie.See i work as a production assistant at House of Blues,in Vancouver.I am constantly around millionaire rockstars,who are very much in this business for all the wrong reasons.By the same token i do meet,on rare occasions,true artists who are gracious with information and will go out of their way to remain human among all the tomfoolery that exsists in this 'game'.Dave Garibaldi is one such guy ,who let me video our conversation about some linear stuff i was having problems with.He was giving back to the drum community.Vinnie does not give back,at all,his temperment concerning being taped is telling,and ultimately its dissapointing that he misses the point,as u have with my posting.While it is debateable that the glut of instructional videoes may harvest clones,i feel that if u are serious about your art,you WILL digest all that documented knowledge that you can,why retard your progress when u can be adding to your vocabulary.Do you really think im gonna have my students take my concepts and experience as the definitive word on how to play drums?,hell no.They know that my abilities come from a million different sources and inspirations,and i have my own voice on drumset(which is ever-developing),and moreso its provided me with a wealth of experience,so i am grateful for the lessons of all my influences,which in turn inspires me to give back to the drum community in any way i can.Whenever Dom Famularo hosts clinics,he always says to enjoy yourself,learn,and STEAL ideas!Which is something we all do,with the hope of creating your own language on the drumset.So im glad i offended you beat hit.If u meant everything you said,then u probably didnt check out the booted clip of the Martin Landau/Vinnie,you wouldnt want to become a clone of Vinnie;or by contrast view what Vinnie does in a setting where he is thrown into an almost unfamiliar live situation.Oh by the way,America has nothing to do with freedom of choice.So if i,or anyone else posting ever pisses you off here,it would be nice if u read carefully into the posts,and ask questions,'cos im willing to bet you thought of yourself as ultra clever in responding to my post by misquoting me,and painting me as someone who lives by a hateful agenda.Yes i can come off strong,but really i just want to learn........beats
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...Whew, boy...
I thought that all of u guys had some good 'arguments'... JUST MHO!!!! [img]wink.gif[/img] ...
Beats - GREAT description of "Punk"...
BTW - I'm not getting the video on that VC clip; just the audio [which is cool nevertheless!]...why is that?! [img]frown.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2003 10:14 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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Hmmmmm...well, i see BOTH sides...both of u guys on either side have some very valid points, if'n ya axe me...
...Rule #1: if u r gonna do something that appears noticeable & obvious [such as vid'g] - just ASK the artist[s] 1st ... if worse comes to worse, offer to make it worth their while - if it's that important & worthwhile to YOU having it, then offer them a decent & fair compensation for it on the spot!! Remember - $$ talks - BS walks!! I'd rather do this up front & respectfully; rather than have who i consider to be "1-of-if-not-THE- greatest-drummers-of-all-time" remember my face as 1 of an a**-h*** [THAT certainly wouldn't help MY drum'g career any!!]
...maybe this particular audience member/bootlegger may or may not have acted in a disrespectful way - hard to say - maybe he really didn't quite understand what VC was trying to "sign" him - but it seems Vinnie lets this type of thing get him a little too ruffled sometimes, perhaps; but he IS entitled, to a certain degree, is he not? I mean, sounds like he asked politely a few times, w/ no response...now, how hard is it [like some1 else said] 4 some1 to 'figure out' what VC was tryin to 'tell' him... u know, if u think about it, it IS easy 4 some1 who can't speak the same language to be [or pretend to [img]wink.gif[/img] ] act oblivious to what's goin on... u guys r right, tho - the Tater mngmt shouldve def done something about it [in a tactfully diplomatic way, of course; unless the individual gets nasty - then that calls for a little "uniquely different approach" [img]wink.gif[/img] ] ...
What to do? I mean, u pay your cover [& maybe parking], buy your 2-or-more drinks/food - is the show then 'purchased' & 'belongs to the patron?' Or can the musicians in the band prevent ya from bootin? What would the courts say? Well? What's it gonna be, boys?!
Maybe agreements like this should be implemented at live gigs ... I'd gladly chunk out anywhere from $20-25 for a preserved memory like that [what i'd just seen; or any preferred set of your choice] ... VC & those guys should have some1 who's with them record or vid-tape EACH & EVERY show of EACH & EVERY gig like this, through the mix'g board or otherwise - & take addresses, e-mails, & phone #'s, & send a copy to every1 who wants to purchase a copy of the days'/nights' performance for a set price ... why, i even know guys who have 4 or 5 VCRs right there in a rack set-up [to start dup'g for people on the spot] ...everythings done "the good ole capitalistic/free-enterprise American way" [img]tongue.gif[/img] ... the location is entitled to their fair cut [at the door &/or food & drinks], as are the bands & artists ... this, to me [even tho it still doesnt prevent pirating for 'illegal $$'] seems to be the best [& fairest towards all parties] solution to this prob.; & these fine musicians can make an extra chunk-o-change 4 their hard work [all those yrs. of practice] & trouble ...
...or maybe Vin & the boys should record every stinkin show that they do & offer on a site to sell copies of it [like guys do for 'trading']; u know, have an unbelievable list that goes like, "Baked Tater, 1-1-03, 1st set," "BT 1-1-03, 2nd set," "BT, 1-1-03, 3rd set," "Catalina's, 1-2-03, 1st set"...& on & on!!! [Yeah, i know - that's a lotta shtuff to keep tabs on - but HEY!!]
Of course, the other side of it is, Vinnie don't have to do DA** ANYTHING if he don't want to....
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 24, 2003 02:46 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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LOL Fuse!!-True That!Just quickly,Vinnie is on the Queen of the Damned soundtrack layin down some serious metal playing,totally weird hearing him do that stuff.Vinnie and metal who would have thought........beats.......
